Current version of SNES9x has buggy cheat

[Videogamer555]

Cheats that used to work in version 1.52 and earlier now don't in 1.53. My system that I'm working with is Windows XP Home, 32bit, and the emulator is version 1.53 of SNES9x. Some cheats even lock-up SNES9x now, and don't work properly in the game. For example the game BS-Zelda which has a built in timer, that you have to cheat for the game to start (action replay code 7fffff:08 which is in the format address:data) used to work normally. Now when you start the game with the cheat in place you cause SNES9x to lock up. If the game is running when the cheat is used, it doesn't work at all. You have to time it VERY PRECISELY, by booting the game without the cheat on, and then activating it while the screen is black before the graphics load in. If you don't do it right, it won't work. In SNES9x 1.52 and earlier, you could just boot the game with the code in place and it worked fine. Also applying the code at any time during the game also worked. For those wanting to test this, the rom is at -removed-
And before the admins get all mad saying posting roms is bad, you should understand the history of this game, that it was broadcast over the Satellaview satellite to a reciever hardware addon of the Super Famicom which was uniquely sold in Japan. There never was a cartridge sold in stores for this game in the US, and not even in Japan, and the satellite no longer broadcasts this game data. Also there is not a way to get this for the Wii Virtual Console, and from what I've heard, Nintendo has no plans to release it on Virtual Console. It's quite obviously abandonware, with even a nintendo employee (from what I've heard) stating that they have no plans to put it on Virtual Console, rendering it impossible to play outside of an emulator on your own computer from the rom that was dumped almost a decade ago by some hacker who knew how to dump data from the satellite signal, and clearly in no way costing Nintendo any money when it is played on the computer (only thing costing Nintendo money is their own decision to basically officially completely abandon this game). So please don't delete this post. This rom is important for testing the cheat bug I'm having with this game.


Also keep in mind that what ever the bug is that's causing this problem is probably indicating an underlying bug with the whole cheat system in SNES9x, that is something that effects the overall program code that deals with cheats, so it probably will make problems in other games' cheats as well.

[Camo_Yoshi]

I can vouch for the ROM posting link; from my judgement it'd be fine to post that here... though a tad gray-area. Hopefully the mods will understand as well.

Sadly I can't help you here since I don't have much experience using the cheats engine in Snes9x (I don't usually cheat ).

Good luck!

[odditude]

is it an actual issue, or was the original behavior a bug which was fixed in 1.53?

[OV2]

Cheat entry is buggy in 1.53, try a recent testbuild: snes9x_testbuild_13022012.zip

[Videogamer555]

It's more than just cheat entry that's buggy. Cheat loading at the beginning of the game is also buggy. That is if you load the game in question (at least with BS Zelda) it locks up when loading the game. To load that game you must deactivate cheats before loading the game. Also it should work at any point during the game (and it did work on SNES9x 1.52 and before). But now here are the problems in ver 1.53:
It will lock up if loading the game with the cheat already active. The cheat doesn't work at all if the cheat is activated after the game's screen loads. It only works if you time it correctly, and load the game with no cheats, but activate the cheats before the graphics appear on the screen.

1.52 and before it would load with the cheats fine and the cheat would also work at any other point (it sets the timer to 8 minutes). So yes there are bugs in the whole cheating engine (not just cheat creation) in version 1.53. Now I haven't tested your new beta version yet to see if it fixes this, but if it only fixes cheat creation, then I doubt that it will actually fix all the bugs I've encountered.

[OV2]

There was a bug with cheats being enabled during ROM load (it ended in an infinite loop). However I can't find any behavioral differences applying the cheat in-game. Both 1.53 and 1.52 set the minutes to 08.

[adventure_of_link]

For now the ROM has been removed. as Camo said, it IS a gray area... and please let the mods decide what gets moderated from now on camo.

Not to mention a similar discussion in general where Ryan said that Nintendo, etc haven't released their ROMs as abandonware.

[Camo_Yoshi]

For now the ROM has been removed. as Camo said, it IS a gray area... and please let the mods decide what gets moderated from now on camo.

Not to mention a similar discussion in general where Ryan said that Nintendo, etc haven't released their ROMs as abandonware.

How was I deciding what was getting moderated? I was simply stating that this isn't exactly blatant piracy by any means... seeing as how it is currently impossible to obtain in it's current form.

[adventure_of_link]

For now the ROM has been removed. as Camo said, it IS a gray area... and please let the mods decide what gets moderated from now on camo.

Not to mention a similar discussion in general where Ryan said that Nintendo, etc haven't released their ROMs as abandonware.

How was I deciding what was getting moderated? I was simply stating that this isn't exactly blatant piracy by any means... seeing as how it is currently impossible to obtain in it's current form.

It's still copyrighted by Nintendo regardless. Not to mention there have been similar incidents of you playing mod in the past...

[Videogamer555]

If I have a bug with a specific game (possibly even a specific rom file as different versions, mods/hacks, etc, have different code), and the developers for SNES9x need the rom to debug the emulator, how am I to provide the rom for the devs to test with the emulator?


Also on another note. The site that I downloaded the rom from originally justified it by stating that it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to play the game without downloading it, because it NEVER was sold as a cartridge. There is NO WAY to play the game in a "normal" way, ONLY by emulation can it be played. Is it a violation of copyright? Techically, yes it is a violation by the "letter of the law". However does NOT violate the "spirit of the law". Copyright is designed to prevent piracy and money loss for companies that have intellectual property. It is NOT designed to prevent people from playing the very game they wish to play, and WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY FOR if it was for sale. If you ban a rom for a game that can ONLY be played by that rom, you are then BANNING THE ABILITY FOR ANYONE TO EVER PLAY THAT GAME PERIOD. If a game EXISTS, you have a RIGHT to PLAY it. Now normally that means paying for it, but in the event that the game is not for sale or any other normal means, then I believe I have the RIGHT to download it and play it. This game never had a cartridge.
To have played this game a person would need:

To have lived in Japan between 1996 and 2000
To have been a subscriber of the Satellaview satellite radio service.
To have owned a Satellaview satellite radio receiver.
To have owned a Satellaview satellite radio modem addon for the Super Famicom.
To have owned a Super Famicom.
To have had the system up and running during the 1 hour that this game's ROM data was being transmitted.

Those are such tight requirements that even many Japanese people have NEVER played the game. And of NO Americans EVER played it, unless they played it emulated. I'm not kidding here. That's how little Nintendo cared about making money from it. If they don't make money it's not from piracy, it's from the fact they aren't selling it. I'm sure 99% of those emulating it would buy a copy of it if they could.

[odditude]

one of the devs could ask you for the ROM via PM if they couldn't get it themselves. there's no need for a publicly-posted ROM link.

[Camo_Yoshi]

one of the devs could ask you for the ROM via PM if they couldn't get it themselves. there's no need for a publicly-posted ROM link.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, I don't think that's allowed either; Admins can view your PMs, and it still wouldn't be allowed here because you're still using this website as a vessel to (basically) transfer data.

I'd PM each other your emails and go from there instead.

[Videogamer555]

I believe this is also a 1st Amendment issue.

The right to free speech means a person publishing speech has a right to publish whatever they want, but also means the consumer of speech has the right to consume the speech produced by others (listen to the verbal speech, read the book, play the game, look at the painting, etc).

How does this apply to games? When a game is being sold in stores, the user has a right to buy the game. When a game is no longer for sale from a game distributor, you can USUALLY buy a used cartridge (or disk) of it on ebay, and they have the right to do so (buy it on ebay or other seller of used games).

But this principle also applies to games for which no physical medium was ever produced (Satellaview BS-Zelda for example) the user has the right to play the game while it's being broadcast via Satellaview BSX system. Once it has ceased to be broadcast via the Satellaview system, even if no physical medium was ever produced containing the game, that does NOT deny the consumer his/her 1st Amendment right to be a consumer of the speech (player of the game, in this case). In other words, when no physical medium exists, and the officially released intangible medium (satellite signal in this case) has ceased to exist, a person has a right to DOWNLOAD the game from a website offering that game for download.

In other words, since the US Constitution is above all else in the US, a company (such as Nintendo) does not have the power to supersede it by ceasing transmission of the satellite signal containing the game data. That act of ceasing the satellite transmission does just that, stops the broadcast of the game, but has no effect on my constitutional right to be a consumer of the speech (player of the game). In other words, once the satellite signal has ceased, if Nintendo provides no other means by which I can play the game, I have the right to download a copy of the game to play.

Now this may not apply if I was living in Japan, as they have a different constitution, but I live in the US, and therefore have all the rights as laid out in the US Constitution, including the right to free speech, which means both the right to produce whatever speech I wish and also to consume whatever speech I wish. And that is a right that no company can take away by their merely choosing to stop producing or distributing their product, because it is GUARANTIED in the US Constitution.

[Videogamer555]

It's this line of thinking that is being used by the site that is distributing BS-Zelda roms, to justify it. And make no mistake, they aren't an illegal group pirating tons of games like some other sites are, just using BS-Zelda as a cover for other distribution which WOULD be illegal. Rather they are fulfilling the constitutional obligation to not allow any speech to be destroyed or censored. And I can guarenty you that posting other games that aren't related to BS-Zelda, IS AN OFFENSE on that site that will get you banned. And the do not consider themselves to be violaters of law, and I don't consider them violaters of law either. I'm surprised you guys here consider it a violation of the law.

They are dedicated to ONLY BS-Zelda games.

[Camo_Yoshi]

For now the ROM has been removed. as Camo said, it IS a gray area... and please let the mods decide what gets moderated from now on camo.

Not to mention a similar discussion in general where Ryan said that Nintendo, etc haven't released their ROMs as abandonware.

How was I deciding what was getting moderated? I was simply stating that this isn't exactly blatant piracy by any means... seeing as how it is currently impossible to obtain in it's current form.

It's still copyrighted by Nintendo regardless. Not to mention there have been similar incidents of you playing mod in the past...

I don't recall any such incidents...

[odditude]

hilarity

i believe you should run that by any law student and see if they can keep a straight face.

[Videogamer555]

hilarity

i believe you should run that by any law student and see if they can keep a straight face.

Yeah but the site DEDICATED to this game (and posting roms of it) says it's NOT illegal, because you can NOT buy it anywhere, and therefore does not cause Nintendo to lose money. And piracy is illegal because it causes a company to lose money from lost sales. Therefore since Nintendo isn't selling it anymore, this site's act of freely distributing it is NOT illegal because it is NOT piracy.

They say they are operating WITHIN the confines of the law, that they are NOT doing anything illegal by offering this game for download. Since the SNES9x forum site's goal is also to operate within the law, there should be no problem posting this game on the SNES9x forum.

[odditude]

again, run that by some law students and see if they can keep a straight face.

a state of being out of current distribution does not negate copyright on a work.

[Videogamer555]

I never said it negated copyright to stop distribution. But it's more than out of distribution. The method of distribution (radio waves) left NO HARD COPIES. This is more complicated situation legally than just stopping cartridge distribution. When cartridges are no longer sold, the purchasers of cartridges can re-sell used cartridges at used game stores, yard sales, ebay, etc, so out of distribution does NOT mean no longer available for aquisition. However when the only distribution method was radio waves, then out of distribution VERY MUCH DOES mean "not available for aquisition". This is tantamount to Nintendo walking into the homes of people who have bought the game and then saying "sorry times up, this game no longer exists" and then stomping on the game cartridges until not a single copy of the game remained. If Nintendo did this and destroyed the physical cartridges people had bought in stores, everyone would be SUING NINTENDO. But Nintendo's actions of sending the game only by radio waves, and then ceasing the transmission of the signal, WITHOUT RELEASING the game on cartridge is the same. In both cases Nintendo does NOT have the right to do so, and in both cases, gamers have the right to RECOURSE! In the case of the radio signal from the satellite, it seems people have already dumped the game, and posted it online. This is their legally rightful RECOURSE, to Nintendo ILLEGAL actions.

Copyright may not expire when the satellite signal stops, but the law sure as heck was NEVER meant to be a shield to protect companies from UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICE.

The constitution gives Nintendo the right to make a game (producing free speech). Likewise, the constitution gives me the right to play the game (consuming free speech), usually for a monetary payment. The constitution does NOT give Nintendo the right to both cease all transmission of the game's radio waves in a manner that leaves no hard copies AND SIMULTANEOUSLY outlaw free distribution of the game that someone has ripped, as this combination of actions violates free speech. They can choose to use a radio transimssion system, and then cease transmission of the game and choose to not offer any alternative methods of game acquisition, such that no official hard copies remain; but then they MUST allow game fans to freely distribute the game, in order to avoid running afoul of the US Constitution.





Also, the people at the website dedicated to emulating these specific games (the BS Zelda games) have already stated it is not illegal. Since they probably researched the law even more than I have, I'll take their word for this as truth.

[Zarggg]

Neither the United States Constitution nor the Bill of Rights have anything to do with copyright. Copyright is codified in Title 17 of the Code of Laws of the United States of America, the permanent compilation of our federal laws.

Copyright applies the moment something exists. It also lasts 75 years after the entity under which the copyright was registered ceases to exist (whether it be a business or a person). Furthermore, when you purchase a game, you are not purchasing the game's copyright, but instead a license to use that game in accordance with the license agreement included with that game. Distribution of a game without prior permission of the copyright holder is (at best) a violation of said agreement, exposing you to legal penalties by the copyright holder, and (at worse) potentially a violation of US law (i.e., a criminal act) as well. Unauthorized distribution of copyrighted material is neither free nor protected speech. The fact that no physical product is available for authorized distribution is irrelevant to the validity of copyright. Also, for the record, it is entirely plausible for Nintendo (or any other hypothetical game company) to say "sorry times up, this game no longer exists," and remove your ability to play the game. That is more or less the entire basis of Digital Rights Management.

Any site can say that their distribution of copyrighted materials is not illegal; that does not make it true.

But this thread certainly has gotten way off-track. The copyright status of BS-Zelda has little to nothing to do with the state of Snes9x's code.