Seiken Densetsu 3 sound glitch

HCBailly · Post by **HCBailly** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:20 am

I recently updated my version of SNES9x from v1.5.1 to 1.5.3. Most everything in Seiken Densetsu 3 seemed to run fine. However, when saving at the golden goddess statues and casting Holy Ball, the sound effect is rather garbled. This does not occur in v1.5.1 with the exact same sound settings. It's not game-breaking, but is rather annoying every time I cast the spell.

Is there a solution to this, or should I just go back to v1.5.1?

Thanks a lot.

the_randomizer · Post by **the_randomizer** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:05 pm

That's really weird, since Snes9x 1.52, Blaarg's SPC700 audio core has been implemented; the Holy Ball should be faithful to a real Super Famicom. What version of the ROM do you have? Have you tried switching between XAudio, Direct Sound, etc? Changing the buffer size (around 120ms) and the input frequency (31950Hz or 31900Hz seem to be magic numbers for some people like me), keep experimenting with different settings.

Here's a video showing how the sound effects should output in Snes9x. Again, that's a really weird issue you're experiencing (make sure "sound sync " is enabled) Here's the AVI file - http://www.mediafire.com/?u78g4i0s8lwttjm

And my current audio settings -

HCBailly · Post by **HCBailly** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:42 pm

Thanks for the reply!

Those are my exact settings for both versions of SNES9x. I've fiddled around with every single sound setting, to no avail. I've also tried this on two different computers, one with Windows XP and the other with Windows 7. Both have the same problem.

I'm playing v1.01 of Seiken Densetsu 3, which is the latest version on Neill Corlet's website. I've played the game ten times before and never encountered this issue. If it matters, the same thing happens on ZSNES.

the_randomizer · Post by **the_randomizer** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:33 pm

Weird, very weird

While I know why Zsnes sounds funky, I honestly don't know why Snes9x 1.53 does. Have you tried 1.52, right after Bearoso
(one of the guys who maintains Snes9x) implemented Blaarg's SPC700 core?
Something may have been broken between 1.52 and 1.53.

Do you have an integrated sound card or removable one? These are the settings I use since I have a Realtek HD sound card (part of the motherboard).

On another note, version 1.54 is supposed to be out soon, which will use the complete S-SMP core that Bsnes uses (with minimal negative speed impact).

Zsnes emulates the SPC700/Nintendo S-SMP very poorly compared to Snes9x and Bsnes, and Square Enix games used very unorthodox methods/algorithms for sound effects, which is why they sound especially bad on Zsnes. But I heard that the team is supposedly working on version 2.0.

Could you post a video of the issue? I might be able to tell you what's wrong.

One last thing you could do is delete the Snes9x config and start configuring everything from scratch. Bearoso would definitely know more about this issue than I do.

HCBailly · Post by **HCBailly** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:28 am

I tried v1.5.2 as well, to no avail. 1.5.1 is the last version that worked perfectly for me.

I am currently using an onboard sound card. I actually do have a spare sound card that is probably better that I could install. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I'll see if I can record a video of the problem. Part of the reason I REALLY want to use 1.5.3 is because it uses DirectX, so I can use Fraps to record videos on it. This is very convenient, because it causes zero slowdown on higher end games, and automatically breaks them up into nice, neat chunks.

To my knowledge, v1.5.1 didn't use DirectX, so I had used Camstudio, in the past. However, I have to record videos in 5-7 minutes segments, because it records in .avi format, which has a maximum file size of 2GB before becoming corrupt. Unlike Fraps, Camstudio does NOT automatically break up the video into smaller chunks, so I had to do that manually, which was rather inconvenient.

I'll try removing the config file and see how that goes.

the_randomizer · Post by **the_randomizer** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:40 am

Huh...

Alright, I'll watch the video once you post it. Just make sure you go to Emulation->Settings and check "Hi-Res AVI recording" so the AVI will output the video without weird issues.

HCBailly · Post by **HCBailly** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:59 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGWf29OwZI

Here's the video. Thanks for your help.

the_randomizer · Post by **the_randomizer** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:46 am

I just listened to it, and I realized something very weird, it sounds the same on mine as well! WTF? Perhaps I'll do some comparing with Zsnes because, if Zsnes does anything right, it tells me how sound effects are NOT supposed to sound like. Too bad I didn't pick this game up when I lived in Japan. Will update ASAP.

Edit 10:56PM - WOW

Zsnes definitely does NOT sound right at all! I've been using Snes9x and SnesGT (another great emulator) for a long time and, I guess you could say my ears are trained to pick up weird quirks like that.

Here are some more videos showing that Snes9x does indeed sound more accurate than Zsnes. I'm almost convinced that this is how the game sounds on a real Super Famicom, as awkward as it may sound. Super Mario RPG has similar sound effects (razor-sounding, scratchy, buzzing/humming are sounds I remember hearing on a real Snes).

If I'm coming across as arrogant or a jerk, please keep in mind that it is not my intent to hurt anyone's feelings

Zsnes - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ZScAyEqeQ
Snes9x - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3elzubJ_73w

Again, I can say with confidence that this is not an issue, but that you, having been an avid Zsnes user, are not fully accustomed to the more-accurate Snes9x. But then again, I'm probably making up assumptions that are false.

HCBailly · Post by **HCBailly** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:26 pm

I suppose it's possible that you're right.

The thing that really makes me think something is wrong here is the golden Goddess Statue sound effect. They used the exact same sound effect in Final Fantasy 5, which I've heard sound normal in the SNES fan translation, Playstation, and GBA versions. The latter two sounded normal playing them on consoles, not emulators. Also, I've been using SNES9x v1.5.1 for a long time, and haven't touched ZSNES for years. I only checked it to see if there was any improvement.

Regardless, if there's nothing I can do with v1.5.3, then I'll have to go back to the older version. Thanks a lot, for your time.

EDIT: I just tested it on SNES GT and got the same problem. If I'm right, then it's really bizarre that every emulator out there is having the same problem. I wonder why SNES9x v1.5.1 is wrong then?

the_randomizer · Post by **the_randomizer** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:45 pm

Between Snes9x 1.51 and 1.52 is when there was a major sound core overhaul, or when Blaarg's super-accurate SPC700 emulator core was integrated into the program code. Many games that sounded horrible on Snes9x 1.51 have been corrected in 1.52 and on, like Super Mario World (the spin jump sounds, entering/exiting a warp pipe, mushroom shrink/grow) now all sound like the real thing. Does the golden goddess statue sound really bother you that much to the point of rolling back emulator versions?

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, don't get me wrong, but is Seiken Densetsu the only ROM affected? Do other games sound weird as well? I can certainly run comparison tests between games like Chrono Trigger/Final Fantasy V on Snes9x and a real console (since I paid 500 Yen for the used cartridges and 1000 Yen for the console). I was and still am very nit picky about how sounds are emulated, especially the Square cursor sounds, or the Lightning 2 sound in Chrono Trigger (Zsnes/Snes9x 1.51 made my ears bleed, but 1.52 and on get it 100% correct).

One last question, have you tried Bsnes 0.82 (which, according to Byuu, is the fastest version)? It supposedly emulates the sound better than Snes9x, but I can't tell the difference. In fact, many test Bsnes against a real Snes.

Are other ROMs affected? Again, I personally don't think it's an issue per se, but designed to have the buzzing/humming sound. In fact, it sounds almost like the Mega Drain sound from Super Mario RPG that enemies use on you. That I know for a fact is how it's supposed to sound.

I'm not trying to convince you to use 1.53 against your will, but if it looks like that....sorry. You're entitled to your preferences, it's just that other games (besides SD3) sound wonderful compared to 1.51.

If anything, Bsnes should be 100% accurate with sound. (Info about Blaarg's DSP/SPC core, bottom of the page - http://slack.net/~ant/libs/audio.html#snes_spc)

Here is a video from Bsnes, the most accurate Snes emulator out there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTNS86BqIaU

HCBailly · Post by **HCBailly** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:43 pm

bSNES only uses .sfc files. My SD3 ROM is in .smc format. Simply changing the file extension doesn't make it readable.

I've only played a few relatively primitive games on v1.5.3, but have had no problems with them. I could try some of the more advanced Square Enix game to see how they work.

the_randomizer · Post by **the_randomizer** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:50 pm

This will make ROMs clean and changed them to SFC format http://byuu.org/files/snespurify_v10.7z But go ahead and try other Square games, as they should sound like the real deal.

The prime example of SPC700 emulation is games that use streaming audio; Earthworm Jim will not play correctly on Zsnes or Snes9x 1.51, but on later versions, Snes9x will play it without missing sounds.

HCBailly · Post by **HCBailly** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:18 pm

I tried some mid to late game boss fight in FF5, FF6, and Chrono Trigger. All of them sound fine to me.

Thanks for the link. I got bSNES to work and it still sounds the same. I can't imagine that they would all be wrong. I'm just so used to how it sounded in SNES9x v1.5.1, from having played SD3 several times on it. I'll do the best I can.

On another issue, I notice that when casting certain spells, small parts of the screen would cut out very briefly. I even noticed this in FF6. It's not a major issue, but another problem I saw.

the_randomizer · Post by **the_randomizer** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:26 pm

It might have to due with the number of sprites per scanline (or something to that effect), as the Snes it limited to how much it could produce on screen at a time, though I'll definitely need to have someone back me up on that (an expert on Snes hardware/emulation). Like I said earlier, Square used some very funky methods of programming their sound engines, and only a handful of emulators get it 100% correct (Snes and Bsnes IIRC), and I do admit, they do sound out of the ordinary, but I've played many Square games where sound effects have that weird humming/buzz sound in magic spells. Sorry if I upset you in any way.

Oh, and I spoke to Kode54 (one of the programmers for Zsnes) and he told me that what we're listening to (sound effects, etc) is how they should be outputted, as unnatural as they may sound. I wanted to know about that myself

It may take a little time to get accustomed.

SparroHawc · Post by **SparroHawc** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:40 pm

The sprites cutting out is normal. I have a cartridge for Final Fantasy III (a.k.a. 6) and especially when using the Magitek beam attacks, it's reeeeally common.

HCBailly · Post by **HCBailly** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:58 pm

I just finished a full playthrough of SD3. The aforementioned problems were very limited in scope. Somehow, I don't remember the sprite issue before, but it could just be that I was so accustomed to v1.5.1 from playing it 9 times on there, that I didn't notice. The sound effects weren't bad and I eventually got used to it. Thanks a lot.

the_randomizer · Post by **the_randomizer** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:42 am

Glad to hear it